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Handle with Care: Empathy at Work


Mar 3, 2021

Jill Harding

Whenever I share those stories, people like you look so, so optimistic and you're so bubbly on life with what you've been through. And I said because at the end of the day, my kiddos fortunate, they have taught me a lot about life in ways that I don't know if we didn't go through those experiences, one, I could have taught them as a parent. And secondly, I learned a lot by their endurance, resilience and what they all went through.

 

INTRO

 
Sometimes in life, one disruptive life event falls fast on the heels of another.  This can be hard in your personal life…but it can feel especially devastating when the pain affects your children.  And that is what we are going to be talking about today.  My guest is Jill Harding.  She is many things, which I will tell you more about in a second, but she has parented two children through some really hard stuff.  Her oldest child, Grant, was diagnosed with leukemia and her middle child, Berkley, had a life-threatening bout of E.coli.  You will get a behind the scenes look at the challenges and even joy along the journey and learn how to be a better manager, coworker, or friend to people living through similar situations. 

Jill lives with her husband and three children in small-town Indiana, in Morgantown.  She has known her husband since the mid-90s and they always said that they would never live in Morgantown or own minivan or live in a log cabin.  But things change.   

 

Jill Harding

We live in a little town which we love and adore Morgantown. But I laugh when people ask that question because my husband and I have known each other since the late 90s and we always said no log cabin, no minivan and no Morgantown. And guess what?

 

Jill Harding

We have a minivan and we live in Morgantown and we pass a log cabin to get to our house every day just on the irony of those early and that we don't even think of at our place like it's perfect.

 

Liesel Mertes

All of the cup holders, the door is right, minivan, they're great.

 

Jill Harding

And I love it. You go out and you're grabbing food on the go and they ask you if you need a cup holder. I'm like, Are you kidding me? I got a million in here.

 

Jill is a marketer, a high school basketball coach, an entrepreneur, and a small business owner.  She is raising three children with her husband.  And when it snows, Jill and her family love to ski and would do it all day, every day if she had the chance. 

 

Liesel Mertes

When you and I realize at this stage of life, it can be a precious commodity, especially with COVID. But when you have time to yourself, do you have any hobbies or like ways that you really like to fill your discretionary time?

 

Jill Harding

And we do and I actually my husband and I, we like to just chill out and we have a pretty heavily wooded area that we live in. So we just like to take hikes. And and I like to do them by myself or my husband or even the kiddos. But I really feel like that just rejuvenates all of us.

 

Jill is also an avid reader; she loves books on leadership and entrepreneurship, but she also makes time for other genres. 

 

Jill Harding

And then I also my son is a huge, huge, avid reader, breaking school records, even with his reading accounts while he was in elementary. So he and I kind of share books, too, with his love for reading. In The Land of Stories is a new book series that we started getting into. So reading is another obsession of ours.

 

Liesel Mertes

Ada, my eldest, loves Land of Stories and I know what that is like. It's its own kind of distinct pleasure.

 

Liesel Mertes

I also love to read but a track with one's children. And so Ada and I are just reading together right now.

 

Liesel Mertes

Oh, it's it's a keeper of the Lost Cities, which is a fantasy sort of romp into the land of elves, ogres, et cetera, et cetera, that it's like they're big like 350 page books and there's like eight in the series.

 

Liesel Mertes

So I was reading far too much heavy non-fiction and I took a divergence over the last month and a half. And now just reading elves now at see that.

 

Jill Harding

But I fact that you can talk about it like my sons always like where are you at in the book? And, you know, I asked him the same thing and it's cool to kind of chit chat back and forth on where we're at and live that dream happy together for sure.

 

Liesel Mertes

Well, and I also resonate with I, I feel like I say often that our family is everybody's at their best when we're like outside in the woods.

 

Liesel Mertes

Sometimes it can be a battle to get there with fussing, but it's always so I don't have any gloves or, you know, what have you. What an amazing. But once we get out there, it's so amazing.

 

Jill Harding

We're fortunate to we have a little creek that runs in the bottom of our woods. And just to sit there, I mean, obviously right now it's kind of cold and frozen, but it's still cool just to watch it because, you know, natural beauty for sure.

 

Liesel Mertes

There's something about the just the movement of water and what it brings also, which is its own goodness.

 

Liesel Mertes

Well, you know, children and life with children. That's some of what brings us to this conversation. And I know that you have familiarity with the good people and staff at Riley Hospital, much like I do within my own story.

 

Liesel Mertes

What brought you to Riley when you were pregnant with your second child?

 

Jill Harding

So basically our journey with our son, Grant, he I was telling you before he actually was diagnosed with leukemia at the age of two and a half, and originally our pediatrician was, you know, just running bloodwork, doing this on the other.

 

Jill Harding

And at one point, I guess that that motherly instinct just kicked in and like, no, this isn't good enough. I feel like I know my son. Yes, Grant was our first child, but I feel like I know that this son well enough to know something's just not right.

 

Jill Harding

So I push back to the pediatrician probably more aggressively than they were expecting and just said we get a fine results today because I can't see my son in suffering any longer and they won't ask him,

 

Liesel Mertes

What were you in, what sorts of symptoms was he manifesting?

 

Jill Harding

Yeah, so it was shortly after Christmas and he would not even he got a train table. And if anyone's been around toddlers, two year old toddlers, once they start walking, they don't stop. They run in the raster and they're crazier than ever. And he got to a point where he got a train table for Christmas and he wouldn't even stand up to play at the train table at a little over two. And I was like, someone just doesn't make sense.

 

Grant continued to languish.  He got strep throat.  There were misdiagnoses by the team of pediatricians.  No meaningful answers.  Which was when the doctors send Grant to Riley Children’s Hospital in the state capitol, Indianapolis.  This was mid-January in 2013.  Grant was put on the 7th floor for infectious disease. 

 

Jill Harding

They said we're going to not let you guys leave until we figure out what it is. And we were OK with that because as you mentioned, I was pregnant with our second child.

 

Jill Harding

So we're like, OK, we're going to figure this out because. Obviously, our son means the world to us, and so we stayed there for a couple of days. This was the twenty second, twenty fifth they finally figured out what was going on. And we were so fortunate at the time because the chief of basically the leukemia society are basically our doctor.

 

Jill Harding

He was actually the one that was there doing rounds that day that was diagnosed, which is really mind blowing if you think about it, because Dr. Thallon was actually there and he's the chief and he was one doing rounds.

 

Jill Harding

And he's the one that came in such a compassionate, humble doctor. I mean, more so than I think I've ever been around in my entire life. But he just came in, let us have our moments. He did a spinal tap right in the room with us just to confirm that we were dealing with leukemia, because then once you determine it's leukemia, there's various different types of leukemia that you can have.

 

Jill Harding

And in this case, Grant had what they call HLL, which is if you're going to have the leukemia at two and a half, it was best that he had the HLL as opposed to the AML. So we were fortunate there in that regards. You see a silver lining. It was hard at the time, of course, but once we found that out, then we basically, you know, had a moment. They moved us to the fifth floor and treatment started.

 

Jill Harding

And it was, again, pretty amazing that we had the chief there within the hospital setting that new leukemia very well and was able to walk us through the steps and such a truly compassionate individual. And he had grandchildren himself. So he had kids, my and David's age, which was nice because he knew how to talk to us and help cope with the situation.

 

Liesel Mertes

Well, and as I hear you say in those parts of the story, I feel like it's helpful just to to color around the edges, because there are a couple of things that are going on, right. Like you're seven months pregnant. Also, you guys are not from Indianapolis, but you're in Indianapolis, you know, doing tests at Riley. Are you guys staying at the Ronald McDonald House? Are you in a nearby hotel? Because there's this painful thing that happens with your young child that they're suddenly in the hospital and you're having to recalibrate life to be able to be present. What was that stress like for you guys?

 

Jill Harding

Yeah, that's actually a great question, because we are so fortunate to have family and friends that just basically helped us, people that just came out the woodworks really just to really help be a support system. We actually have a daycare and we our youngest still goes to that daycare today that we have a daycare where they just were showered us with love and ways to support us, to help us with our other just home and just things at home that we need to help with.

 

Jill Harding

And my parents and David's parents both live close by to so grandparents, two sets of grandparents living close by. But thankfully, it's about a forty five minute drive for us. We basically, again, being very pregnant, it was uncomfortable, I'll forget that.

 

Jill Harding

But it still was worth every moment to stay there with great Dave and I. Basically, I was considered basically I was a freelancer at the time and so I had my own business. So flexibility and that I mean, if I had a computer, I could pretty much do my work anywhere.

 

Jill Harding

So that was nice. And then David worked for Indiana Farm Bureau insurance and they were extremely flexible with him working remote. So Dave and I kind of know how to work remote before our even what we're going to do current day is we were able to basically just be there.

 

Jill Harding

We had our computers and thankfully I was still pregnant with our middle child. So it was just Dave and myself and Grant. So we basically just lived in that hospital. They kept us just in the actual in his floor on the fifth floor.

 

Jill Harding

We didn't have to access the Ronald McDonald House other than like sometimes we would go just to get a break from the hospital room itself, take turns and so forth, and utilize the services that they do provide, like meals and so forth that they do provide through that service. And we also have since then paid it back a little, too, just because we know the importance of families who are driving in much more than what we are.

 

Liesel Mertes

Yeah, I remember as as we have gotten care at Riley, just even sitting close by to a Check-In desk and, you know, like, where are you coming from today?

 

Liesel Mertes

And people being like Louisville, all of which is a regional hub of people coming from all over.

 

Jill Harding

Yeah. And we were actually I mean. Forty five minutes. It was it's not a big deal to us, honestly, because we were so fortunate that we had in the care and we would drive farther if we had to. But we're used to driving a half hour really pretty much anywhere. So ready for that we do so.

 

Liesel Mertes

And it was so treatment begins for leukemia. How long was he in the hospital? And then when you coming back for continued treatment beyond that initial hospitalization time?

 

Jill Harding

Yeah. So leukemia is one of those. The cure rate is high. Last I knew when we were looking at the numbers, it's ninety four percent. But the same token, it's a pretty long process.

 

Grant was placed into a trial program where he would come in for chemotherapy treatments over a course of three years. 

 

Jill Harding

So Grant was diagnosed at the age of two and a half. So January of 2013, he was diagnosed. So basically from that January 2013, he basically had three and a half years that we were in and out of Riley during that course of time, and we still actually go to Riley.

 

Jill Harding

We're coming up on so through to have your process pretty aggressive. Aggressive in regards to the chemotherapy. I don't know if you've ever been around anyone that's had it, but to see a young child,

 

Jill Harding

we would laugh because we can laugh about it now because I was very pregnant, right, with my Berkely, my middle child, and I was always hungry.

 

Jill Harding

And then Grant had to be on steroids for 30 days. So he was always really hungry. So we're eating at ungodly hours like 2:00 a.m. He wants chili all of a sudden. But the challenging thing would be on chemotherapy. It kills the good and bad cells. So his body, basically his ANC, which is your ability to fight off infection, was oftentimes next to zero or zero. And so he couldn't need stuff that was leftovers from the night before that we put in refrigerator.

 

Jill Harding

He couldn't eat stuff out in restaurants because it is speck of germ that he could potentially good could cause him to get really sick and can't afford to get sick because his body would have a hard time hearing being sick on top of what he was going through. So I would be out and I tell that story because it makes me laugh now so I could think I was pregnant. I said I would be making chili like two a.m. in the morning and I had to make it from scratch because he could eat with food.

 

Liesel Mertes

Was it was that was that your reality for the duration of the three and a half years of needing to have a certain level of hyper vigilance?

 

Jill Harding

Yes, it definitely was. And I think that we got told and I kudos to our support system and my husband, too, that they were really surprised, the social worker that we dealt with and then obviously his nurses and doctors, that we weren't more hospitalized with Grant, that he was had the fewest hospitalizations with what he was going through because of just our diligence and just awareness when someone we had so many people that wanted to bring us groceries, for instance, and when they would bring us groceries, David and I would be wiping them down with bleach wipes before we even brought it up in the house.

 

Jill Harding

I mean, we were. To a degree, we got such a pretty Cold War, you did, we did, and we always laughed, too, because it was cold, right? It was about this time of year when we were in the thick of it and we laughed because we have we have a big picture window in our dining room. And so we would have all the blinds open and people would come visit Grant through the actual and talk back and forth with walkie talkies to the glass on one side outside.

 

Jill Harding

We'd be on the inside and they so speak to some people would bring over toys and they would bring double the toys again. We'd walk them down with bleach, Grant play with the ones inside and they would be playing the same ones outside. So it was kind of cool. Just some of those things, like you said, we we did just out of we had to get super creative because obviously this is a child. We don't want to take away his childhood.

 

Jill Harding

We have good memories. But this is challenging to go through for him and for us to see him go through it. And I think the beginning to his once we had Berkeley, it was nice because obviously, you know, given the new baby from getting sick was a little easier, too, because she was always in the house with us doing the routine we have with grandma.

 

Liesel Mertes

So you really think as a child, as a baby baby, anyway, I not just the just the innovative kindness of people, you know, coming over with with double the toys and playing, you know, some time has passed as you go back and think about that time I'm struck that you're doing so many things like you're a business person, you are mothering an infant, you're managing the elevated health risks of a child with leukemia.

 

Liesel Mertes

What were some of the what did like a dark day look like for you? What did your feelings of overwhelm like? When would they come up with they catch you off guard?

 

Jill Harding

Yeah, because, again, Grant was our first child, right, so we didn't know, we still don't know where does parenting right. You just kind of learn as you go along. This is the knack of being a parent. But I think the moment when it was challenging the most is, you know, having Berkeley, having a brand new baby, baby infant, trying to nurse her and do all the right things that, you know, the pressures of just raising a child and then making sure that I give her the attention needed, even though she's she still has needs and attention that she needs.

 

Jill Harding

Right. From a mother and father, but not letting that distract from even our care from Grant. I feel like sometimes it was kind of that emotional head game that we played because we know Grant needs extra special attention. We had to make sure we got medicines a certain time. We had doctors appointments on a regular basis, balancing those elements that we know him well, but yet not neglecting or not giving the attention that Berkely needed as a young baby.

 

Jill Harding

I think those things then obviously sleep deprived from it all.

 

MUSICAL TRANSITION

Back to Jill’s story in a moment, because there is still so much more ahead.  But I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Handle with Care Consulting.  We know that this year is full of all kinds of stress, and it is hard to know if you are giving your people what they need to survive, stabilize, and thrive in this constantly changing environment.  In all of the confusion, empathy is the skill that your leaders and your team need to build a thriving culture.  And Handle with Care Consulting can help.  With keynotes, workshops, and executive coaching options, we give you the tools to put empathy to work.

 

MUSICAL TRANSITION

 

Liesel Mertes

I know within my own story, there's our daughter Mercy died and then it was.

 

Liesel Mertes

Maybe three years later for where we got the news that our son, Moses, had a really profound heart condition, that he was going to need lots of open heart surgeries, all that to say going through one hard thing with your children is not a guarantee that you won't go through other hard things later on down the path. I know that that has congruence with your own story. What happened with E. coli and your family?

 

Jill Harding

When you hit the nail on the head, it's hard and I'm sorry you had to go through that, too, but I know in the end it all happens in places that much stronger when you come out on the other side, whatever that result may be. But so Berkely birthdays is our we call our spitfire. She's always been she's a lot like personality wise. And I tell her sorry a the time like me. So but this same time I think I know it helped her just that.

 

Jill Harding

That sassiness, that determination, that that drive she has even at a young age, so I remember vividly because my husband actually went back to nursing school through everything we've been through with Grandma. And he actually became a nurse roughly three years ago. Just everything that we've been through with our son every time he go to hospital because we were there a lot, as you probably could imagine. My husband is just like, I need to be here. I need to be helping people.

 

Jill Harding

And so my husband, kudos to him getting a nursing degree while having three kids at the time. And now he works at the medical ICU in downtown Indy at University Hospital. Kudos to you as well. To partner.

 

Jill Harding

Oh, yeah. I was the bad guy, so supercooled to see him do that, but with that hope man. So he was working at the hospital. It was crazy because it was Sunday and I was not any Sunday. It was the Indy 500. The biggest tackler in the world was happening on this Sunday in May.

 

Jill Harding

And I, I just tell these details because you got to kind of laugh about it, because if you don't laugh about it, then you cry about it and you don't.

 

Jill Harding

But my son, I was so I was home with three kids by myself, right, and Berkley was five when all this happened and my son comes running into I think I was in the kitchen and he said, Mom, I was like, yes, he's like Berkley just pooped.

 

Jill Harding

I'm like, OK, good for like, did you wash your hands? Right. And he's like, no, you don't understand. I'm like, what are you trying to tell me? Then he goes, There's blood in.

 

Jill Harding

And I think I'm like, no, there's probably not blood in his pocket or something. Right. So I'd let it just go. And I just played it off like that because I was like, you know, Grea does not know that there's blood in there because it would have been the same.

 

Jill Harding

He would have been a, Berkeley's by just being kids. Right. Right.

 

Jill Harding

So I just kind of blew it off and she pooped again. And it's like, Mom, no, I'm not kidding. She's got poop in her blood, our blood in her poop. I'm like, are you sure? So me as a mom, like, OK, I'm going to humor them and go look. And I did. And I was just like, well, Grant, thanks for telling me. And this is the eight a little boy telling me this.

 

Jill Harding

Right. And I was like, thank you, buddy, for telling me. He's like, what does it mean? I'm like, I don't know. So I'm basically trying to get a hold of my husband again. I told you, he is a nurse. So very tough to get a hold of him, especially in a medical ICU.

 

Jill is finally able to get a hold of David, who is working his shift.  Thankfully, a coworker offers to cover his shift so he can rush to Riley to meet Jill.  Jill’s brother came over to be with Grant.  And they arrive, back at Riley, which is familiar but surreal.

 

Jill Harding

We actually went to the E.R. and they immediately didn't mess around. They did bloodwork, urine samples, stool samples, everything you can imagine to run tests on her little body. And they they couldn't figure out what was going on. So lo and behold, they it was so deja vu. They put us on the seventh floor infectious disease floor again.

 

Jill Harding

And still, we have no idea what's going on other than we know there's blood in her stool

 

Liesel Mertes

And are you finding yourself, like, completely emotionally flooded right now, like, oh, I did like some some people kind of like detach almost from the situation. Some people are right in it. Like what's going on for you as a mom?

 

Jill Harding

As a mom, I was Dave and I were like we were so distraught because we have a good friend who's an E.R. doc. And as a dissertation, she actually did a full report. And like leukemia and how leukemia, is it hereditary? If you have multiple children, siblings, would they get it? And so we're like just went through this and there's no way. So we're thinking maybe it's leukemia again because of what we were experiencing. Right.

 

Jill Harding

Similar types of experiences. So, I mean, we were just like almost so surreal that I was it wasn't really even overwhelming. It was just like. OK, we got this we've been here before, we got this we're going to be OK. What a good place. Let's just keep asking the right questions. David the nurse now so he knows more questions to ask. At the time I was back at Cook Medical, so I was in the medical device realm.

 

Jill Harding

So I knew there's products to help from a device perspective. So we just need more questions to ask in this scenario than what we did before, because we obviously have been through life a little bit different than what we were expecting.

 

Jill Harding

So anyways, fast forward, we talk to the doctors. They finally said we don't know what's going on. Too much test. They kept us another night like they did with grea type thing. And they finally figured out, OK, she's dealing with E. coli.

 

Jill Harding

So E. coli, there is a 50 percent chance at her age and being female that she can get something called at us, which is hemolytic uremic syndrome. And in layman's terms, that basically means her renals can go into renal failure. Renals are what feed your kidneys, basically. It started making sense because her urine output started going down, so she had no urine for at least 24 hours at this point and she was drinking.

 

Jill Harding

So we know she's got the fluids coming in, but the fluids aren't going out. And her stomach was getting real distended where it just stuck out, you know, just looked at her. She's a really petite, small little lady. So we knew something just wasn't right. And then they finally figured out that,

 

Jill Harding

OK, she's got E. coli. The strain of E. coli she has could potentially cause her to have HUS. So they monitor, monitor and unfortunately, unfortunately, see how you will. They put us on the fifth floor again.

 

Jill Harding

So we're like, wait a second. The floor is leukemia. We know that floor all too well. We've lived for so many days and hours and they're like, well, we put you on that floor because that's also our transplant floor and it's also our floor that we do dialysis if we need to do dialysis.

 

Jill Harding

And then at this point, two more challenges, because we have two children back home. We have an older and a younger siblings of Berkeley at home. I mean, I know they're in good care, but still I mean, they're scared because I don't know what's going on. They got a lot of questions. And if my brother does, too, because he wants to be able to give them answers when they become available.

 

So there's well, and I'm free.

 

Liesel Mertes

But that sense of like the limited resources of yourself as a parent to like you physically can't be in two places at once. Yeah, definitely.

 

Jill Harding

And I know, Grant, I mean, obviously, with what he's been through, his heart is pure gold. And, you know, he's cutting my warrior of the three kids. And so he just wanted to be there with us. And it's hard to understand that we got to be here. We'll be there when we can together. Just give us some time.

 

Berkley is retaining fluid, getting puffier and puffier so the doctors decide to start hemodialysis. 

 

Jill Harding

But hemodialysis is basically where they take out. And it's phenomenally crazy to me. If you just think about what I'm about to tell you, the machine is huge. It's about the size of it, like a refrigerator. Basically, the machines are big and they take 10 percent of your blood out and cycle it, filter it through this machine.

 

Liesel Mertes

Wow.

 

Jill Harding

And so they filter it through the machine. So 10 percent of your blood at any given moment in time is in this machine being filtered and then cycled back into your system. So while the things that we learned along the way, she had to have ended up having six different hemodialysis treatments and it just I mean, it was exhausting for her to go through that and.

 

Liesel Mertes

I just want to ask you about, like I can imagine that scene, you're like these are these are not easy procedures.

 

Liesel Mertes

You know, they're involving needles, they're involving discomfort. They're involving multiple checks by nurses. Was there a sense of, like, overwhelm or powerlessness, like just as you're watching your child go through unnecessary pain?

 

Jill Harding

Well, I will say it probably helps in our scenario, David, one being a nurse and then me having a background in medical devices because we knew that these there's great products that the companies that we worked for offered. And then obviously David knew more what was going on than I did.

 

Jill Harding

So he was able to kind of walk me through it. But there's still something we hit the nail on the head to be said about seeing your own child. Right. It's not to dismiss it if it's someone else lying there or if it's even me right there. But to see your own physical child and someone feeling helpless in regards to pain, I will say with Berkely in particular and Grant to adjust their personalities are really different.

 

Jill Harding

Berkley was pretty much she would tell the nurses what to do and she was not messing around. She even during her painful moments, she has grit. We called her tough as nails because she just has this, I don't know, something embedded in her personality that she's a fighter.

 

Jill Harding

She uses a lot of humor to get her through tough times right now at the nurses, she would ask them for things that she knew she can have, like Skittles. But just to keep them on their toes, they'd be like, wait a sec.

 

Jill Harding

You can't have that.

 

Liesel Mertes

A sense of agency. Yep.

 

Jill Harding

And again, she's a little petite, five year old little girl. She's real small. I think she weighed maybe thirty eight pounds at the most during all this. And so she would be on they would weigh her before and after each treatment. And sometimes she lost five, six pounds and hemodialysis treatment because of the fluid that her body was keeping.

 

Jill Harding

Well but during all this she actually got C. diff too. I'm not sure you're familiar with this, but yeah. See that during it all.

 

Liesel Mertes

As you think about those times in the hospital for those who are listening who have not had to be with a child long term in the hospital. What are some things that you wish people knew about what that reality is like?

 

Jill Harding

Hmmm, that's a really tough question. I think that. It gives you a lot of humility, I mean, regards to humble, because David and I have always been very independent individuals, we don't really ask for help.

 

Jill Harding

We just kind of just make it happen because we're strong willed individuals and we'll just find a way.

 

Jill Harding

But I think I know from our experience personally that it's OK. People want to genuinely help others. I mean, that's just human nature. And I think once we put our pride aside and our guard down, it helped us as parents to really do what we needed to do.

 

Jill Harding

And it took away from the challenges of us not being 100 percent present for at the time, Grant. And then that time later, Berkeley.

 

Jill Harding

So I think with those scenarios and in and of itself, it's just. Be compassionate. Ask for help, but if someone doesn't immediately want your help, it's OK because they've got to do it in their own way, right. Because everything is unique to that family, that circumstance, that situation.

 

Liesel Mertes

Yeah, I talked in my trainings that it's not about you as the person who is offering help, like almost never. Is it about, like, judgment on your relationship.

 

Liesel Mertes

It's just even stuff like is messy and so often help. And if the person says, yes, be willing to follow through and if they say no, they don't take it personally yet.

 

Jill Harding

And exactly, because I think what we're going through right now in our world. Right. I mean, like in our situation, we never been through that. And many of our friends have never been to that. Right. So you just got to go with what your instincts. And we rely heavily on our faith because we are people of faith. But at the same token, you know, we never been through that. So, you know, maybe grace to those folks and like you said, get to meet them where they're at because at the same time, we didn't know what we needed or didn't need.

 

Right.

 

Liesel Mertes

Yeah, that's another thing I say that that the let me know how I can help. Question isn't as helpful as you would think.

 

Liesel Mertes

It would be like finding clean underwear.

 

Liesel Mertes

But I don't know what were some of the best ways that people helped your family?

 

Jill Harding

I think it's just the, um. Just to know that we had the support, right, just a phone call, just even if it's just listen to me cry or David cry or just listen to us in silence, if you will. I think just knowing we had people behind the scenes, I also know that I have since he's passed on. So it hurts my heart to even say this.

 

Jill Harding

But my best buddy and Andrea, we've been best buddies since third grade. Her father wanted to help so bad he's retired. So he had the abilities and means to help them. At the same token, like he would bring us groceries, like unexpectedly. And he kept on like what we liked at Kroger and he would just randomly draw stuff off because he knew he'd done it before. So he kept he was so sweet. He kept a list of our favorite bars or snacks or what have you.

 

Jill Harding

And we just make sure he kept us knocked up that and it's just simple because it wasn't anything like, you know, they put him out too much. It was just kind. Bars are David's favorite potato chips, what have you. Just simple things. But it's still so just like what people are thinking about us.

 

Jill Harding

So just randomly dropping those off our

 

Liesel Mertes

And what beautiful intention also, like, you take time and ask what you liked. And then he wanted to remember it and he didn't have to. It sounds like hassle. You do this, you just realize like these are staples they're always going to enjoy receiving. I'm just going to bring them. I love that.

 

Jill Harding

I was really cool. And and I think that.

 

Jill Harding

Just the the window time we call it window time, where I would actually sit on his window and look out and play with folks, I think just being mindful, even though people have to be guarded in those scenarios that we were in and have to be more inside in their own space and not exposed to other germs outside of their home, just putting that like being creative, I think how we communicated and still played, but yet did it through a different means.

 

Liesel Mertes

Well, I'm thinking about I mean, there's support of you, right, as the parent. There's also the support of your child who has had their world turned upside down. And I imagine it felt meaningful to receive support.

 

Jill Harding

Well and the cool thing about the window, time was allowed to play, like with his his papi. We call David's dad Papi, with his papi outside the window while Grant was inside the window, but allowed David to kick our feet up for a minute and let that Grant was entertained and happy. And we did that for a little while, too, when she came home because she was still her ability to fight off. Infection was still pretty low at some point, too.

 

Jill Harding

So we did the same thing with her as well. But I think just showing folks that you're you've got that support system, whether you tap into it. Again, like you said, you get to meet those individuals where they're at and let them. Like you said, I don't know what I need right now, I just need right. I just need like I don't have one iota of extra creative energy right now.

 

Liesel Mertes

OK, so on the other side, was there anything you don't have to name names, but was there anything that you were on the receiving end of that you would say this is this is just not helpful? Don't do these things.

 

Jill Harding

I think so, yes. The constant like. What's around I'm looking for the constant sharing of, like, knickknack little things like that, either we can only have so much in the hospital and I say this because people just don't know, like birthday was on the transplant floor.

 

Jill Harding

So she couldn't have anything in life. So people would try to send her flowers. Well, she never got to enjoy those because she wasn't able to have those in her room because the thing was soil on it, for instance, anything like breathing, she can I could plants. You can actually have those in her room. So. Yeah, and people didn't know that.

 

Jill Harding

But I think I almost wonder if sometimes that that's the staff at the hospital too.

 

Jill Harding

But I think it's just maybe doing a little bit of homework before you do that kind gesture, because I hated that for the individuals that sent her stuff like that because. You know, that they spent now. Now, great, we said make sure it gets to a nurse's station or it gets to someplace where someone can enjoy it but still going to enjoy it.

 

Jill Harding

And then she saw it from the window and she's like, oh, good. Then we had to talk her off a cliff for a little bit because she thought that she could have was in her room. Right. And I think just if someone says, I don't know what I need right now, don't cry, because they will come and you'll know, but don't force it. Let it be.

 

Liesel Mertes

Yeah, that's a great point.

 

Liesel Mertes

Jill, is there anything that you would like to add that I didn't ask you in our time together?

 

Jill Harding

Um, yeah, I think so.

 

Jill Harding

I think just when we go throughout our days, just know regardless big or small or whatever it is, we all have a story and we just got to be mindful we're all human. Right. And there's no like rulebook on how to be the best human ever. Technically speaking. Right.

 

Jill Harding

So just have compassion for other people and just be realistic in that everyone's got a story. Everyone's weathering something, whether it's big or small, and just realize that, you know, words do hurt more than people realize.

 

Jill Harding

And I think also, too, like back to my kiddos specifically both Grant and Berkeley, they've been Tindley because she's been through all this with us as well. With regards to Berkeley, just let those moments happen. Do the best you can to weather through those moments that make sure you come out on the other end as strong as you can by what you've learned through that moment. And what I mean by that is like

 

Jill Harding

Grant and Berkeley both, like I think that they have learned some things and their characters have been shaped in ways that I feel like would have been really tough for David and I to have instilled in them if they didn't go through the experiences they went through.

 

Jill Harding

Right now, both of them have scars from their great how to put a catheter in Berkeley, had some catheters in her jugular area. So they both have scars. And I tell them all the time and they tell me now to because I've told them so many times. But those are like, that's part of you and that's OK. That's what makes you grant unique. That's what makes you unique. Like everybody else as well. We all have something that's unique to us, kind of like a snowflake in that regard dry.

 

Jill Harding

We're all unique in our own way and don't be ashamed of that. In fact, be proud of that, because those scars have shown that you're still here with us today.

 

MUSICAL TRANSITION

 

Here are three key takeaways from my conversation with Jill…

  • There are many restrictions for an individual living with cancer.Hearing all of the challenges with just eating (the concerns about leftovers, the need to clean food etc) gave me a deeper appreciation of how tenuous life and infection can be.  With that in mind, learning a little more before giving gifts (like flowers) is important.
  • Consider what creative engagement with a child who is immuno-compromised (or battling COVID) looks like.I loved the story of play dates through a window with walkie talkies (plus there was the added benefit of giving parents a chance to rest).
  • Remember that “Tell me how I can help” oftentimes is an unhelpful question to people who are already living through something hard.Many times, people don’t know in the moment what they need and they might feel tentative following up with a request afterwards.  Instead, know what you can offer (perhaps a grocery drop-off, a Door Dash certificate, or doing some yard work) and extend a specific offer of help.

 

OUTRO