Jun 24, 2019
- Rachel Pritz
We went home and we both just my husband I were like, we don't we don't even know what just happened. You know I mean we just felt like we didn't know which end was up. So we waited around for weeks to come in every three days and they did ultrasounds to see if the baby's heart was still beating.
INTRO
My first pregnancy was unplanned, Luke and I were newly married, some wedding gifts were still boxed, sitting in corners of the garage. Our five year plan included graduate degrees and travel, definitely not an infant. But, I was late, and so, after work, I picked up an over the counter pregnancy test from CVS. I took the test in a cramped bathroom of a local coffee shop, saw the positive result, and began to imagine what life would be like with a little baby. There were appointments and baby showers and prenatal vitamins, a whole industry of excitement and marketing around the pending arrival of this new life. Never once did I pause to imagine that I would have anything other than a healthy baby girl. That is the thing, especially in the West, there is kind of an unsaid assumption that every pregnancy will end with a happy, healthy baby. And unless you know someone that has experienced a loss, unless you have lived through the pain of losing a child, you might share in this assumption. But a happy, healthy baby is not the end of every pregnancy and today is the first of a two part series on infant loss and miscarriage. Next week, we will talk with Matt and Jenny Kistler about their story of loss and infertility.
But my guest today is Rachel Pritz. Rachel lives here in Indianapolis, close to the Monon Trail. She loves the outdoors, travel, and trying new restaurants.
- Rachel Pritz
Yes, I would say probably food is one of my favorite things that can be a hobby. So I think Indy has a great food scene. Rachel is a registered nurse, she spent years by the bedside.
Rachel and her husband particularly like going out to lunch, the same options as the dinner menu but at a lower price point. I like that too.
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah. So I have my husband, Aaron, and then I have my son, Austin, who's six and then my daughter, Zoe, who just turned three and then we have two cats: one that we like and one that we don't like but we're still caring for that kitty just out of the kindness of our hearts.
Rachel is a registered nurse, she spent 15 years in healthcare, the first 12 working bedside before she moved to a move managerial role. And Rachel has been working as a coach for several years, first as a side hustle but, with the support of a mentor, she has launched as a solo-entrepreneur a few months ago.
- Liesel Mertes
And you, in the last couple of months, have had a significant career transition officially. Tell us a little bit about where you've come from and where you are now.
– Rachel Pritz
So she kind of started me on this journey towards coaching and became a certified life coach a couple of years ago and kind of did that as a side hustle and then decided that I was ultimately gonna do a full time in March.
- Liesel Mertes
So, as you give us a little bit of a window into your family and your pets and one of the things that brought us together and that you're here to discuss was some of the pain and disruption in that journey building your family. I think it began as you were in graduate school. Will you tell us a little bit about what your family life looked like at that stage and where you were in your life journey?
- Rachel Pritz
Sure. So I was about halfway through grad school. We had already had my son really easy pregnancy healthy kid. He was about a year and a half old and then I was about halfway through grad school and so we decided to get a backup. So he was actually six months old when I got pregnant the first time and then had a miscarriage early on. So it's about eleven weeks. I didn't expect that. You know I think we just kind of assume we have you know one baby or you know we just kind of assume that all pregnancies are gonna end healthy which is not true.
- Rachel Pritz
One in four end in miscarriage. So that one surprised me. And so, you know, ultimately we said OK. You know this happens. Maybe there was something wrong with a baby, you know, all those things that we kind of tell ourselves. I was also I have a unique circumstance because I was working at the place that I, actually I was working in the hospital system that I actually had the miscarriage in and then ultimately had surgery.
- Liesel Mertes
Can I ask you a little question about that you mentioned the challenge of having that delivery play out in the hospital system where you were and just the there's the surprise, right? This didn't happen the way that I thought and 11 weeks. Was there anything that people did that was really great at that stage that you said oh this was so thoughtful, that was so helpful, as you were trying to come back to grad school?
- Rachel Pritz
Yes. So I would say from the grad school perspective actually, nobody knew about that one in grad school. And so I had not shared that with people in grad school, so kind of just went back to normal, which was kind of nice to have that area of my life that I felt like was just normal. At work, I mean I had a lot of, I had a really healthy support system at work. And so I was surrounded by nurses and doctors and you know, for the most part, people that were fairly compassionate and empathetic and so you know I mean I think they you know said whatever time you need and you know those types of things.
- Rachel Pritz
I wouldn't say that we really had a lot of discussions around it. I was much more private with with that experience. And just, in that time in my life, I was a much more private person. I didn't share a whole lot at work. I felt like, at that time, that work in life should you know maintain some certain boundaries and be separate. So did it.
- Liesel Mertes
Did it even feel in some ways like care to you to not have them press more deeply into that?
- Rachel Pritz
It did at that time in my life for sure. I mean, I felt like it was it was what I needed was to kind of not press and kind of move forward with with life.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah yeah. And moving forward then looks like what for you?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah. So I mean my husband and I you know obviously we talked to the doctors and they said you know you can you know try to have another baby soon, you don't have to really wait long. And so my husband and I were both kind of like, OK well, we'll you and take a few months and and make sure we're both healthy and I'm recovered and all of that and we'll try again. And so we tried again and got pregnant fairly quickly and so we thought everything was kind of you know, going, you know well didn't see any problems we went in for that first you know early ultrasound did little seven or 10 11 weeks and we saw the heartbeat. So we're like, do you know that we feel like we're out of the woods and things are gonna be OK.
- Rachel Pritz
And so we had only planned to have two kids. That was the plan. You know like we're gonna have two kids two healthy babies we'll be done. And so then we went back for our 20 week ultrasound, which was really you know, for us I was thinking it was more gender reveal than really looking at the health of the baby. You know, I just assumed the baby was going to be healthy and the doctor's office said, you know, something is really wrong and we need you to go over to the high risk Doctor. And so thankfully they got us right in. And so we were right next door and I could tell an ultrasound I wondered why I couldn't see anything it just looked really strange. You know I didn't I didn't remember that from my son. And so we went over there and they did kind of higher level ultrasound.
- Rachel Pritz
It said that the baby had a condition called hydropsy and that it was very severe. So she was swollen all over. We could hardly even make out her face and hands. And so that was the point where they said, well you're your baby's a girl but your baby's likely not going to live to term and if she does it won't be for for very long. So this was like a pretty big boom lowered on us. Not what we're expecting, our families texting us wondering you know what the gender of the baby is. We had my two year old son with us and so he was kind of you know as most 2 year olds not understanding what was going on and kind of creating some havoc in the office and taking all the Kleenex out of the box and all those things. And so you know after the doctor told us this and we asked some questions and tried to better understand what was happening.
- Rachel Pritz
We went home and we both just my husband I were like, we don't we don't even know what just happened. You know I mean we just felt like we didn't know which end was up. So we waited around for weeks to come in every three days and they did ultrasounds to see if the baby's heart was still beating. So ultimately they thought that the baby would be so much pressure that the heart wouldn't be able to handle that.
- Rachel Pritz
And so we kept, I kept going back in. I was off of work at this time so I took some time off of work and I went in about every three days like I said and then ultimately, after about eight weeks, the heart did stop. And so then we were able to induce and deliver.
- Rachel Pritz
And I remember saying to my doctor I must be the only woman coming in here praying to not hear a heartbeat. And she teared up and said, You know I totally understand that. And she was you know very empathetic towards him towards the experience and so, and so then we were able to, you know, go to the hospital and deliver. Before that it was a pretty isolating experience because like I mentioned I was off of work and so I was at home with my son part of the time and then he went to a small preschool and so I was at home by myself and I would go out places and I was really big because my daughter was really small. And so I looked like I was ready to you know deliver at any time. And a lot of people would ask that question and you know like, when's the baby due and what are you having? And I had a few circumstances where I just had a total breakdown. I mean the guy at the oil change place, I tell the story all the time. He asked and I burst into tears and told him what was happening and he got teary eyed and I just felt awful because I also ruined his day. You know and so I went home and I kind of just isolated myself I stopped going out which was really unhealthy for me.
- Liesel Mertes
So fast forward to the delivery and you going and you're going in every three days. I mean that's that's such a regular cycle of having to be in waiting rooms and confronted three I imagine that as exhausting in its own sort of way
- Rachel Pritz
It is. And you do see people come in you know with healthy happy pregnancies and you know and you see these you know bellies that you know gosh they you know they're not going through what I'm going through. So that was hard.
- Liesel Mertes
Did anyone bring you like meals or visit you during those eight weeks?
- Rachel Pritz
So I had a lot of people back that came and visited. It's interesting, because I had three people at work that I was really close with my...Actually, before this all happened, I wouldn't say I was really close with, I was close to them but they were the three that kind of came out of the woodwork and came to my rescue and a lot of ways and just came and listened to me talk and they didn't know what to say they didn't have that experience so they didn't really truly understand but they just listened and that was huge. And to this day they're still people that I'm very close
- Rachel Pritz
but if we go in one of them moved to Texas we all three go or all four of us go and meet in Texas at least one state once a year and they always think of that that was really one of the moments that really brought us all together.
- Liesel Mertes
It's an important recognition that they were able to have yeah even though they haven't gone through something similar. It sounds like, just showing up and being able to be present, right, even if they didn't know what to say but they didn't have to know what to say. They just had to be there.
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah.
- Liesel Mertes
Was your work easy, easy enough to deal with and having time off or did you feel like there were a lot of procedural hoops to jump through?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah I mean there were a few things I had to go through. You know, you have to go to employee health and those types of things even when you come back to work and that's awkward. And so, I know the employee health person thought I'd had a healthy baby and I was coming back and she asked some questions about why I was off for for this amount of time or whatever you know. And so I had to explain to her that, you know, I had a stillborn baby and so that's why I was you know was coming back so soon and and so you know I mean there were just some awkward things that people I think didn't know about but from a work perspective, I would say that they were very supportive.
- Rachel Pritz
When I first came back, people told me I came back too soon. So I came back just a few, what was, about a week after delivery, but I was so ready for you know some of that normalcy in life and to kind of get out of the house it was what I needed. But I did have a lot of people tell me. You know you're coming back too soon, are you sure? Ultimately, they said it was my decision. But you know I felt like there was some pressure there to take more time off.
- Liesel Mertes
So even in saying, that, there was its own way that it translated to you. Did it feel kind of like judgment that they were having or like, you don't know my circumstances or?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah I don't know if it felt like judgment. I thought that, I think that they felt like that was the way they could support me. And it was not what I needed. And there was so much of that circumstance that I had zero control over and there were things that I could still control in my life and that was one of them. And so it felt like I was able to make that decision on my own and have control over that.
- Liesel Mertes
As you went back to work were you having to tell people what had happened. Were you having to have that conversation again and again?
- Rachel Pritz
Yes. So I actually had a really a friend that had gone through miscarriages so had some experience there and so she called me and asked if it would be okay for her to make sure that everybody knew, including her anesthesiology group, because we were all pretty close with them and sometimes people come and go and health care you know we work for a few days and they were off for weeks and we don't catch up on what's been happening. And so she made sure that everybody knew what had happened. She asked my permission and I said yes I would love that. So everybody was aware. So I didn't have you know some of those comments or like, Oh did you have the baby? Like people would lose track of time, thinking I was full term and that's why I was off for that amount of time. And so that was really helpful. And I still think about her a lot. That was really, I really appreciated that she had the foresight to think of that because I wouldn't have known at the time to ask for that.
- Liesel Mertes
Right. And in the midst of things that they did well it was. Was there anything that happened that you go, Oh, I hated it when people said this or and somebody did that and it was just so tone deaf?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah yeah, I mean I got a lot of the comments about you know everything happens for a reason. And you know, heaven needs another angel, those types of things or you'll get to see her again someday at the time. That was definitely not what I I needed. I wasn't, I wasn't there in the stage of grief I was still just really sad.
- Rachel Pritz
I mean, I couldn't, I can't even really describe the brokenness that I've felt and how sad I was. And so yeah I mean I would say that those types of comments in well intended, I mean very well-intentioned people, still people that I'm friends with today and they just don't know what to say.
- Rachel Pritz
I think the hardest part for me is when people said nothing though. So I had a definite time period when I first came back, the first few days people came up to something you know and said like, Welcome back and you know didn't say a lot but just acknowledged that something happened.
- Rachel Pritz
It was probably like, I don't know, a month after and longer term that people just didn't say anything. And I made that to mean that they didn't care. So I really felt like, they don't even care what happened me; they've all forgotten what happened to me and I am still in this, you know, grief storm and I don't know how to get out of it. And so that was that was the hardest part. So I think for for me that was the life lesson. And when I'm thinking of somebody, I I try to say something, you know, whether it's the right thing or some anecdotal you know saying or whatever that would be. I tried, I at least try to say, hey I'm thinking about you. And I didn't do that previously.
- Rachel Pritz
I was I was one of those people that would try to come up with some great words of wisdom that would get people out of this sadness. And so, I think, I think people in general are just uncomfortable with sadness. So especially in the workplace, I think that we're kind of told that, you know, we should just be happy and we don't share those things that work.
- Rachel Pritz
And so sadness is very uncomfortable for people. You know we try to move them quickly out of it because it's uncomfortable for us when somebody else is sad around us. We don't know what to do with that.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah I I resonate. Yeah. And that's that's an evocative term that used to talk about a grief storm. I think I think if you haven't walked through something like that it's it's hard to even have a concept of what the affected person is going through. When you use that term grief storm what, add some layers to what that in the aftermath was feeling and looking like for you and your own journey with your family and just with reckoning you know with like this horrible thing that has just happened.
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah I mean, I would say there was a lot of sadness but then there were days that I was happy and there were times where I would be doing something and almost just totally forget. And then something would happen that would pull me back down. So it just felt like this can a teeter totter of emotions where, you know, I was trying to move forward but didn't exactly know how when I kept having these reminders or these things that would happen. I know Christmas time was really hard because she would have been do not that not long after that.
- Rachel Pritz
And so I had kind of a breakdown it at work. And so that was that was just kind of a tough time and I think people were like, oh well, it's been a while, it seems like you know I'm surprised she's maybe still that sad or you know and I was kind of surprised how it hit me. To be honest, I mean I felt like I had sort of moved forward not on because I don't think you ever truly move on but I felt like I was moving forward and then that just hit me like a load of bricks. And that was a really tough Christmas.
- Liesel Mertes
And they experienced that at work. Did that. What did that look like in your workplace, at that breakdown moment?
- Rachel Pritz
Yes, I had somebody that I kind of I had a breakdown to one particular person and she was I mean very compassionate and said, You know it's clear you don't need to be here and I want you to go home and she followed up with me to see after, the next day to see how I was doing which was really nice. So I think people you know understand, they understood that, I think sometimes. I also assumed that they were thinking like, Why isn't she past this and I'm not sure that that's really what they felt.
- Rachel Pritz
A lot of people would tell me what I think about you all the time but I don't want to say anything cause I might upset you you know and so I think I was on a lot of people's minds and they just didn't know what to say.
- Liesel Mertes
So they reverted to not saying anything, which had its own way
that it made you feel sure. And that I mean the situation with the
death of your daughter so difficult.
MUSICAL TRANSITION
- Rachel Pritz
I mean I think that we just have to recognize especially in the workplace that people have messy personal lives and it's not just my journey through miscarriage and in loss. I think a lot of women struggle with infertility too and that's a whole nother journey and you think about appointments and all these things they actually equate it to going through cancer treatment and so you know you go through all of these things and when some he's going through cancer or similarly you know it's like, oh my gosh you know this is this awful. How do we treat them?
So you know I mean I guess I'm not the only one that's gone through this I think that everybody in their lifetime experience that something, maybe not to the extreme of what I experienced or you know sometimes even worse, and so I just think you know we have to not separate those two worlds. And so in my coaching practice I do that a lot really focusing on how to be more human and really focus on the whole person not just your personal or professional life. So that's what I would I think offer to the listeners is just to
- Rachel Pritz
remember that we are all human and we're all much more alike than we are different and we all go through these moments in life that really can define us and can really be struggling moments. And so we need other human beings to be there for us.
MUSICAL TRANSITION
- Rachel Pritz
I really clung to my son so I felt like I just really just didn't want to be apart from him and I really wanted to be with him as much as I could. I really. He was really a safe place for me and some something that really just brought me a lot of joy, whether I was sad or not. On that day and so I really did cling to him. My husband grieved differently than I did which I think is pretty common and, especially in this circumstance, it felt like a pretty lonely grief because I was the only one that had that kind of intimate carried her in my body who felt her move, delivered her you know. So it was I think it was just a different kind of grief and so we we missed each other a lot.
- Rachel Pritz
I think on our grief paths and I still, you know, I'm not sure exactly how he grieved but I know he did he did it in his own way. And so that was kind of a stressor I think even just on our marriage.
- Rachel Pritz
And then you know at work I think that was once again kind of kind of similar I felt a little like a zombie at work I didn't feel like myself. So I normally am pretty witty and you know can throw zingers towards people and come back pretty quickly and that just was all gone. You know, inside, it felt like a different version of myself. And so part of that I think was just being a mom of a 2 year old to you know and part of it was the grief too. I mean it really felt like I was a different person than I am than I was before.
MUSICAL TRANSITION
After the death of her daughter, Rachel’s body needed time to heal, her blood pressure was high. They waited six months and she was pregnant again…and there was another early miscarriage.
- Rachel Pritz
And so, at that point, I'll be honest I was just pissed, like I was just like what the heck is going on and you know I had people after the third one that said maybe you're only supposed to have one child and so that was hurtful
Rachel went to a doctor, she was poked and prodded, tests administered. But the tests revealed…nothing. The deaths couldn’t be correlated, independent occurrences
- Rachel Pritz
And so he kind of helped us just kind of time things correctly and make sure that the egg was healthy and then we ultimately got pregnant again.
- Rachel Pritz
And so with that pregnancy everything was going well just like my son and you know we kept going in for all these additional appointments, mostly for peace of mind for me and everything was was going great. I still had it in the back of my mind and a lot of probably not in the back of my mind but a lot of anxiety around you know whether or not this is going to turn out to be a healthy baby or not.
But the baby was healthy, a little girl, Zoe, was born without complication, full-term. She is three this year. And yet, Rachel feels like that chapter of her life has had a happy ending, but that there was been a lot of grief and growth sandwiched in-between. Rachel speaks about the post-traumatic growth that she has experienced as a result of loss.
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah so I Yeah I talk about this a lot because I really think that that was the kind of a pivot point in my life. And so, it woke me up. It woke me up to the fact that I wasn't using all of my talents and skills. I was kind of just coasting through life and it was because I didn't want to do hard things of scary to do hard things. And so I just didn't do them because I was afraid of the outcome. Well now I done the hardest thing I could imagine. It felt like hell and back to me. And so if I could do that I could do anything you know so I really started just exploring myself more becoming more self aware, strengthening my own emotional intelligence, kind of putting myself on a growth path and then putting myself out there more, like I went for these promotions and things that I thought I couldn't have done before because they would be too hard for me.
- Liesel Mertes
Are there any things that you say, Well this is a deep mis understanding that people have about what it is to go through miscarriage or infant loss like, I wish people knew this because it would make them better in these situations?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah I mean I think that it's something I probably didn't do either before I experienced it was really I think not minimizing it. And so you lose a parent or you you know lose a grandparent or a friend or whatever that looks like. And people can really see that, you know, I mean that's really obvious to them. This is this living person that we've all known. They're gone but that grief doesn't change for the mother that goes through it. And so, I also think that there's a wide spectrum of what is normal. So I think that sometimes we think, oh my gosh if she's not sad after this experience or it doesn't take her a year to recover what's wrong with her you know?
- Rachel Pritz
And so I just, I do think just letting people grieve in their own way and just being a soft place for them to land is, is I think the key component. And the thing that I learned most from that experience and now how I treat people in grief is I'm just a soft place to land. I reach out I don't offer any solutions how to fix it you can't fix it but you can.
- Liesel Mertes
So yeah if you could speak to that younger version of yourself who's beginning this painful period of a number of years of miscarriage and death, what words would you offer the vantage point that you're at right now to that younger person Or to someone similarly who's maybe listening?
- Rachel Pritz
Still pretty fresh in my story. Yeah. So the younger version of myself was just not all that compassionate. Yes I was a nurse by background, but
- Rachel Pritz
I did not truly understand what compassion and empathy really meant. I didn't know how to show up for people and so I think, I think that's what I would offer my younger self is to to assume that other people are having the worst day of their lives and that's how you treat them. And that's kind of been my motto since this whole thing happened.
- Rachel Pritz
I have this weird thing that I don't honk my horn at anybody anymore because on the way home from one of my appointments, somebody honk the horn at me for I don't know I'm not going. You know what a green light or whatever and I had to pull over because I just had a total breakdown. I mean I was just burst burst into tears I couldn't stop crying. It took me a while to be able to get back on the road and that was something so simple. But that was one of the worst days of my life.
- Rachel Pritz
And so something you know like honking a horn at someone can be meaningful. So I think for me I would offer to my younger version of myself as to treat people like they're having the worst day of their lives and you can't go wrong with that.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah. And do you have any words that you would offer to someone who says Oh yeah. Someone who is in my workplace or who's in my family they've just gone through a miscarriage and I don't know what to do. I don't know how to help them. What would you offer to those listeners?
- Rachel Pritz
Yeah I would say just to not forget. So that was the hardest part for me is I felt like others forgot even though they didn't. And so I always had to bring it up in order to have a conversation about it. So just don't forget and you don't have to offer any, you know, big words of wisdom, just saying hey um I'm thinking of you I know this may be a hard time and maybe it's not a hard time for them but they're always gonna appreciate that. So even when I wasn't struggling, I didn't have a you know a day that was really bad and somebody reached out or sent me a quick text and then a lot. So it did. It did help me recognize that they were aware of what happened. They didn't forget because I was never gonna forget
- Liesel Mertes
Something I've heard in my own story and in other people's and you mentioned this that the people have this sense of if I bring it up I'm going to make you sad. Was that true for you when people brought it up. Did it make you sad to a point where you would say I wish they just never said anything?
- Rachel Pritz
So I would say never. I would say that when somebody even in the acute you know phase of it, I would say never that it really made me feel sad. So, it actually helped me share more of the story and how I was thinking I was internalizing all of it and so it was really hard to get that out unless I verbalized it to people. And so, I would honestly say that never, that it really never made me sad. I may have already been sad but them saying something actually helped in that situation.
MUSICAL TRANSITION
Here are three action points that emerge from Rachel’s story
- Don’t forget…and resist the urge to minimize the pain. Rachel said that one of the hardest things was the feeling that people had forgotten. Bring the topic up, bring the baby up in conversation. Earlier this year, I was meeting with an old friend for coffee. I hadn’t even taken a sip from my oat-milk chai tea latte when he said, “I just want you to know that I remember Mercy (my daughter that died) every year at this time.” His kind words were so meaningful. Be a person that remembers the loss of a child; it means so much to the parents.
- Treat people as though they are going through the worst day of their lives. This has become a guiding principle for Rachel, it keeps her from honking her horn and helps as she cultivates empathy and it is probably a good nugget of wisdom for all of us.
- Grief reduces people; Rachel felt like a different version of herself. In that season of acute loss, the witty, upbeat nurse who fired off zingers was gone. If you are going through the loss of a miscarriage, you might experience this sense of dislocation. If you are a support person, know that these changes can happen…and resist the urge to force someone to move too quickly through grief, to just snap back to being happy or normal. There is a wide range of what grief can look like. Instead, in Rachel’s words, seek to be a soft-landing place for those experiencing loss.
OUTRO