Aug 19, 2019
In the span of a few months, Katie Huey’s father died, her husband lost his job, and she also found herself in a work transition. Katie’s story begs the question: when it seems like everything is crashing down, what can you do? Can you learn to cultivate gratitude, even in the midst of disruption? What is the difference between self-care and self-nurture? And what should you expect from a work environment when things fall apart?
Katie Huey –
How do you support your employees? Asking that question, like, what is your policy on supporting people who are going through tough stuff? Those answers can be really eye opening and tell you how people what the culture is where you're at.
INTRO
In the span of a few months, Katie Huey’s father died, her husband lost his job, and she also found herself in a work transition. Katie’s story begs the question: when it seems like everything is crashing down, what can you do? Can you learn to cultivate gratitude, even in the midst of disruption? What is the difference between self-care and self-nurture? And what should you expect from a work environment when things fall apart?
Katie lives in Colorado. She is married and has a little puppy, Olive. She loves coffee shops and breweries and getting outside. Katie is also a blogger, maintaining the blog 52 Beautiful Things, which aims to find beauty in the world. This blogtook on a particular significance after her father died.
- Katie Huey
I love to write and read. Kind of got that introvert full package but I also have taken up paddle boarding which has been really fun so working on getting back in the water.
- Liesel Mertes
I love paddle boarding; that is a point of true connection. I picked it up a couple of years ago and even though I don't live like actively on a body of water although one day I would love to yeah.
- Katie Huey
I just love being out there
- Liesel Mertes
Yes it's a lovely way to spend a morning.
Katie works as the Director of Operations for the Trebuchet Group, an organizational improvement firm that does strategy consulting with both leaders and teams
- Katie Huey
We work with a lot of purpose based business people who believe that your work and how you treat people and how you treat the planet have big positive impacts. So it's been a step away from the nonprofits where I started out but really learning a lot about leadership and how can we treat people as a whole people in the workplace.
As I mentioned at the start of the episode, Katie’s cascade of disruption began in March of 2016 with the unexpected death of her father; he was only 58 years old.
- Liesel Mertes
Tell me a little bit more about your dad. What was his name? What were some of your favorite things about him?
[- Katie Huey
I love that question. I feel like you can know when people have experienced loss because they say what were their names. My dad's name is Roy he was a gentle soul. He loved connecting with people and we kind of joked that he was sort of the Old Man Whisperer at his agency but he just was really good at being present with you.
- Katie Huey
I think my dad was really simple to a lot of his favorite things where a greasy spoon diners and vanilla ice cream and he would eat his pizza with a knife and fork because he didn't like his hands getting dirty his those those little things that are so particular and that really helped make up the landscape of memory after some of what happened in March of 2016.
It was a normal Friday at 3 PM, and Katie was folding laundry when she got the call from her Mom. Her father had died at home, perhaps from a heart attack. It was unexpected and so very hard.
- Katie Huey
No one knows how to tell you that kind of information. And shortly after I got that news, I knew I had to tell my employer. And I just remember no one was answering the phone and I didn't know what to do because it was like, Do I leave a voicemail? Like this is not something you leave on a voicemail. And we kind of had a challenging relationship and we're trying to negotiate new working relationships. So yeah, I mean, it was later in the afternoon as the day unfolded. My husband was there with me and I remember we just went up to my mom's house and then family started showing up and you start trying to cope with the details.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah I as you think of emotion words that go with suddenly grappling from shorting stocks to your father being gone. What were some of that the dominant emotions that you had?
- Katie Huey
in that I think with shock. There is an element of defensiveness and it feels surreal and you can't quite grasp what that means or the magnitude of how your life is changing in so time really slows down and you're really moving minute by minute.
- Katie Huey
It's it's funny when I recollect the memories too, it's like it feels slow motion I think stunned is a great word. And then you start to kind of put up defensive of how do you begin to protect yourself as you move into this new stage of life.
- Liesel Mertes
Tell me a little bit more about that feeling of the need for protection moving forward.
- Katie Huey
Grief is just incredibly vulnerable. I think there's so many things in life that you feel you have some control over. And I know it's all an illusion but an illusion of control. But when someone unexpectedly dies in your whole life changes it was a significant shift in, how can I choose to take care of myself because the world feels really unsafe and I don't trust the universe right now. But you know, that's a gradual undoing of those mechanisms.
- Katie Huey
Eventually, after my multitude of phone calls I did get calls back from both of my supervisors and they were very understanding and said, you know, do what you need to do we'll talk to you next week. I got cards from people and it was interesting because I was working remotely. So, even though I was in Colorado we had a couple different remote locations. Some people offered to come to the funeral. There was actually a freak blizzard the day of my dad's funeral so that another random thing.
- Katie Huey
But I had a lot of questions as a new employee of what am I able to access in terms of support. What are the norms around bereavement policies and what's appropriate for me to ask for time off? So, I remember being confused and asking over a text message and that didn't feel awesome. And I think when I did come back to work several people would call me on a regular basis and you know, you would get a lot of questions of how you're doing but working remotely was also really challenging. And I just didn't feel like I knew where I fit in that company. And then, of course, you have grief brain and that complicates things where you can't think. So it just quickly became pretty apparent that this wasn't going to be a long term fit. And it probably wouldn't have been even if my dad hadn't died but I just wasn't what they needed in that role and then became less and less what they had.
- Liesel Mertes
You, you talk about being less and less what they needed. We're using that term grief brain. That's an evocative sort of an image. Tell me a little bit more about what you recall and how that felt.
- Katie Huey
It's waking up in a fog and not knowing where to start the day. I think things like what do you eat for breakfast and how do I get dressed. Like very basic things feel challenging and tuning into your own emotions while also caring for extended family. Just was really emotionally taxing, so I didn't have a lot of extra focus or energy to give. And I think your priorities change. And I think I would just say to other people in this immediate lost face like it's totally OK. And if you're I guess I'm passionate. Now if your players aren't working with you to help you take things off your plate or rearrange or work with you to address where you're at. That's a big red flag as you think about that that time and just the haze that's there.
- Liesel Mertes
What do you wish that someone had done for you in that season or had been able to tell you about moving forward?
- Katie Huey
I think in the workplace, especially for people working remotely, having a daily like touch base is really helpful. I often felt like I was unsure about if I was you know what I should be doing or I knew I wasn't hitting the mark. And so it's interesting now to think about what you move forward and you think what could I have done differently. So, asking people to check in with me I think is something that I've learned that I need.
- Katie Huey
But I will always remember in terms of personal friends and family who showed up. I had a friend bring us an Easter ham. My dad died the week before Easter. And like we were not even thinking about doing an Easter celebration or anything but she just showed up at the door and she's like, I didn't know what to bring it so I brought you a ham and like it's humorous and kind of funny and really sweet and bizarre. But I will never forget that. It just was a perfect example. Like she didn't know what to do. But she showed up anyway and it left a huge impact on me.
- Katie Huey
And then people were really practical to, you know, I tell people now like show up with boxes of Kleenex and baby wipes and Clorox wipes like people show up and they're crying and it's messy so give them the supplies where they're not. You know I thought that was really helpful.
- Liesel Mertes
I like that image of your friend at Easter. That's, that's almost like a like a commercial for Hormel ham or something. It's it's tragic and heartwarming and the ham was signified something important.
- Katie Huey
Yeah. So I'll never forget that.
- Liesel Mertes
As you think about do you think so, you've, you've done a lot of thinking and also purposeful writing about this journey with grief centering on well not centering but taking into account the importance of self care and what it looks like to know your emotional needs and cultivate gratitude. Tell me a little bit about how your experiences with the loss of your father and with job loss helped segue into a work that is close to your heart.
- Katie Huey
Well, I have a blog it's called 52 beautiful things. And the tagline is an imperfect attempt to find some beauty the world has to offer. I actually started the journey before my dad died and I think and after losing him my experience was searching for good things in the world has gotten much deeper.
- Katie Huey
And in the immediate loss I think I was almost making these gratitude lists or writing these narratives out of desperation that even though you're sitting and hurting and unsure and things feel unfair, there's still good things and good people out there.
- Katie Huey
And so you know throughout, while that wasn't the purpose of my blog when I started it it's really become this opportunity for me to tune in and say what is the universe gifting me this week. And sometimes that's friends who show up to take you grocery shopping. Sometimes it's ice melting in a big cup like just these really pure ordinary things that I tend to take for granted. And so I find the exercise really grounding for me. There's also a strong theme of gratitude but it's a little bit deeper than just a gratitude list.
- Katie Huey
And to as we live in this American political climate I think there's lots of shocking things that are happening regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum. And I really want to help people realize that we have power in shaping our thoughts and recognizing that gifts that we're given.
- Liesel Mertes
A couple of years later now: what does continuing grief look like for you?
- Katie Huey
I think you know it more often changes and I choose to honor in different ways. And I've learned in different environments that I tend to overshare. And so I think I've had this opportunity to really stop and ask myself a question or a series of questions of, is sharing this information about my grief going to help what we're working on at work? Is it going to make someone uncomfortable and is it going to make me uncomfortable and am I okay with that. You know, simple questions we often start our staff meetings with like a team question and on Father's Day people ask you know what's your favorite thing about your father and you have this visceral gut reaction and to the other people sitting around the table it's a perfectly normal question. And so things like choosing to, a, How do I want to contribute to conversations like that?
- Katie Huey
Anniversaries are hard. The start of football season can be challenging. And I think I've chosen to come to a place of saying you know I'm just having a hard grief day and I kind of leave it at that with other people who maybe I know a little bit better, I can divulge a little bit more but I've really learned that protecting my heart in the professional workspace is important. That doesn't mean I can't show up fully at work.
- Liesel Mertes
You described the moment perhaps in a team building meeting where someone asked about Father's Day. How do you in real time check in with yourself and make the decision about how you want to share in a moment like that?
- Katie Huey
I think the real time thing. It's it's kind of a gut check and it depends on who's in the room. I guess my natural inclination now is less is more and that really people caring, caring people don't know what to say. And so I've learned. And I think this is the burden of grief, grieving people, is that by sharing your story you can often make people uncomfortable and like what's the risk of making people uncomfortable.
- Katie Huey
So, but I also think I don't have to not participate. There are plenty of easy things that I love about my dad that I can share without getting emotional. So and that's three years out. You know, if someone had asked me that six weeks later I think that's a pretty insensitive question. But the other bummer thing about grief is people are so not grief literate that they often don't realize. So when I'm feeling really strong, I can kind of say, you know that's a tough question for me to answer with my situation and just leave it at that.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah, yeah, I am, I resonate with that sentiment of lack of grief literacy or even, even practices and specifically like our particular 21st century American context. You know, we don't have, we don't have the same sort of grouping of rituals or recognized ways of community support or talking about grief...and that's not to say that like in the past that was done perfectly. But yeah, we lack, you know, we want to make people happy. We want to make them feel better. We want to know people to get back to producing in grief threatens that proposition and makes us uncomfortable in a very particular way. And that comes in human interactions
- Liesel Mertes
You talked about this awareness of like. I need to practice some self-protection here in the workplace. What led you to that feel, that present feeling? Were there specific like encounters or things that happened that you go, like oh I don't think I'm going to do that again in that?
- Katie Huey
Yeah. I mean I don't have one specific example, but I think when you, when I would start sharing my story and you're met with a lot of blank stares rather than nods or empathetic words, I know I've I've gone too far I know I've shared too much and I think to maybe it's just some maturity in the process. I'm really asking myself the question of like, if if this co-worker was going to quit tomorrow would I be OK with them knowing this information about me on the world? And kind of using that as a guidepost for myself has been helpful.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah I hear that I hear, you know, it's interesting when you say maybe it wasn't a specific encounter but it was this cumulative weight of observation because I think sometimes people can think, OK well, I don't want to, I don't want to say something wrong. So I'm just not going to say anything or I'm going to kind of change the subject. But that, even in doing that, that's not a value neutral response. It's not a non-response; it's still actively communicated something to you and that something was: oh no I've made them uncomfortable; maybe I shouldn't do this anymore. Which is it's own communication.
- Katie Huey
You pick up on those long variables and I've got this new soapbox. I really hate when people say to me like there are no words. I think maybe you, maybe you don't know words but I have like a ton of words. And and so I really encourage people who are working with those who are grieving you know to say like, I'm really not sure what to say and I want to be with you in this. Like there's 15 words that are so different you know and they have the same feeling. Because even when I encounter new people who have come across death or grief or tough stuff, I get tongue tied too, but I guess maybe it's the writer in me. I just feel like there are always some words you can find.
- Liesel Mertes
There are always words out there piecing them together might be difficult but the words. Honest. Yes. And thinking about that. Can you remember any other phrases or things that were communicated to you where you just, go Oh man, like that was that was bad? Those people shouldn't do that.
- Katie Huey
Oh gosh.
- Liesel Mertes
Or maybe you can imagine a time, some of your some of your top handful.
- Katie Huey
Yeah. I had people send me cards that said like, at least you won't have to care for your dad when he's old. You know, you try to forget the things that people say that are out. I don't like the he's in a better place one night. My first response is like OK what place would that be, even if I do consider religion? I actually wrote a medium piece about this if like five things not to say. One thing that I also found was really hard is when people would say like, how is your mom? And they were coming from a place of curiosity and kind of, well, while they care for her, like my first response is like, she's bad she's sad. So kind of bringing up this, like, how are your other family members doing makes you feel like you, made me feel like I should have been doing more to care for other people.
- Katie Huey
And I think the other thing is that's really not great it's like just let me know what you need. And that's really not helpful because I didn't know what I needed or I was afraid to ask. And so I encourage people, rather than that question, it's like, give concrete opportunities for how you want to help and let them say yes or no. I'd like to bring dinner over on Thursday, would that be OK? Like, even at work, like I'm going to take this blog post from you, is that alright? You know, take the thinking out of it because we're you know operating in that foggy space and it's just really nice when you can give us options.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah I think that's great. Great words of insight and advice for people considering how to support those who are going through something similar. Yeah as you think about yeah I mean you touched on it but is there anything else that you would add as words of insight or guidance?
- Katie Huey
First, as someone who is going through there like in the thick of grief right now, I think recognize the little victories. I read in Joe Biden's autobiography that he used to chart his grief and I thought that was a genius idea, so he would read it you know day to day, on a 10 point scale and over time he started realizing, you know, what once used to be a string of tens became a string of any eights and then a four popped in and he had a really good day. Or it wasn't as painful and that was really helpful for me to realize, while there are elements of this that I will carry forward forever, it's not always going to be this intensely painful. And you know if you're not a list person just really turn into ways where you can have radical self care. I think our culture uses that phrase. It's not about just getting a manicure but it's like hearing you washed your hair today. Little things like that feel really hard to do and at least it did for me so and I think find comfort. I had a lot of people ask the question What are you doing to comfort yourself today, and that felt really manageable. Whether it was like bringing a soft blanket to work or setting an alarm so I would remember to drink some water at 3:00 p.m, like put, putting systems in place that bring you comfort.
- Liesel Mertes
Yeah here that I was talking with a friend just just yesterday who is going through some disappointment, and yeah just news that she's finding hard to reckon with. And as I was talking with her, we brought up that language of self care which oftentimes the direct connotation is chocolate or wine or a bubble bath which can be good things; they can be really important in the journey. But I feel like in my, in my own story, there was maybe something that sounds a little bit different of talking about nurturing yourself as opposed to just practicing self care because you have self care perhaps for a season. It's wine at night and a lot of chocolate and that can be important to get you through that immediate season. But to take stock, at a certain point, and say what is, what is nurturing in the long term? Like, if I am worthy of self and nurture that looks like you know choosing to go to bed at 8:00 p.m., because I really need sleep; it's super important for my restoration, my psychological well-being. I'm going to sleep really early tonight or I'm going to take the time to make like a really healthy nourishing meal for myself and not just pick up something that other fast and easy can be important. But to begin making that calculus of, what does long term nurture looks like is part of perhaps a trajectory that people can consider.
- Katie Huey
I think one thing that I learned through my story, and it's kind of connected to that self nurturing idea, is if you're in a workplace where people are not showing up for you in ways that you feel are helpful or if you've asked for what you need and you know you're not gonna get it, don't be afraid to seek other employment. I've just been really, really happy and lucky to landed a place where they weren't afraid of where I was at and when I was interviewing, I made the conscious choice of saying you know I lost my dad two years ago. I'm still recovering and I'm in a better place where I can contribute to a different workspace and they were super receptive to that. I think I was really, really afraid to be honest about bringing my whole self and my grief experience to a new employer, but I also knew that I couldn't work for someone who didn't know what was happening to me or what I was working through. So it's just an encouragement that like, if work is causing you more harm, seek other caring people to be employed with.
- Liesel Mertes
And what did their receptivity and support, how was that expressed to you that when you started at the Trebuchet Group...you thought, Oh yeah, this is this is a place that will get me in this or how has it continued to look?
- Katie Huey
I, I don't think there is a lot of maybe public acknowledgement about the grief process but rather, they've given me opportunities to grow my confidence and grow my responsibilities. And you know I came in maybe a little bit of a lower level position but just through conversation an open door policies and accessing support in a safe place to ask questions like my confidence in myself has really grown. So I think, you know, when you're interviewing, asking questions about how do you approach team conflict? How do you support your employees? Asking that question, like, what is your policy on supporting people who are going through tough stuff? Those answers can be really eye opening and tell you how people what the culture is where you're at.
- Liesel Mertes
That's a great question for people who are interviewing but also companies to even just sit with and ponder: oh yeah, what what are we doing? Are we doing anything or is the expectation just you leave that at the door?
MUSICAL TRANSITION
Katie had a range of important insights to offer, but I want to pull out three reflections in particular from this conversation.
- If you are going through a hard season, Katie had some helpful suggestions. You could try cultivating gratitude by noticing something, each day, to be grateful for. Perhaps try charting the intensity of your grief daily so you can notice a trajectory over time. You could also ask the question, how am I practicing self-nurture today?
- Katie realized that she didn’t have to share the fullness of her grief journey with everyone. When confronted with unsympathetic people or overwhelming situations at work, Katie chose to opt out of activities or let people know she wasn’t comfortable sharing. Perhaps this could be helpful for you if you find yourself in situations that don’t feel safe at work. And, perhaps a point 2b, if you are a co-worker, your responses and your non-responses powerfully affect whether people feel safe. A blank stare is not a neutral response; it can make people feel unseen and unwilling to share.
- As you are interviewing for jobs, ask the interviewer, what do you do to support employees that are going through hard times?If you are an employer, you should ask this question as well. For Katie, a lack of support was a big part of why she left her job. What are you doing to support your people during disruption? If you don’t know or if you want to get better, contact me at Handle with Care, HR Solutions. Information about our offerings can be found at lieselmertes.com. As a workplace empathy consultant, my goal is to empower workplaces to give meaningful support during these times of disruption.
OUTRO
If you want to read more about Katie and her work on gratitude, here are some links to her work.
1) This is the Medium article she referenced in the podcast: Medium Article
2) For those navigating tough stuff: Here's to the Ones